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    Gaming And Input Lag


    Many of you might not know but there is a thing called "Input Lag" that affects gaming with LCDs, Plasmas and LED tvs. I found this article explaining what it is and how it affects gaming.



    TV Input Lag Test Database

    By Vincent Teoh
    13 November 2014

    Among the many tests we carry out on all flat-screen HDTVs we review these days is to measure their input lag, which is arguably the most important attribute for a responsive gaming experience when playing video games on these displays. Traditionally we have used a digital stopwatch plus high-speed camera combination to get an idea of how much a television lags behind a CRT monitor (which is for all intents and purposes lag-free), but lately we’ve added another tool to our arsenal in the form of the Leo Bodnar lag tester which takes a lot less time and is more convenient to use.

    Please use the following table (Javascript needs to be enabled) to sort all the TVs we’ve reviewed on which input lag has been measured either via the Leo Bodnar device or the conventional high-speed camera method. You can even filter the list by TV brand, display technology (LED LCD or plasma), screen size and rating.

    What Is Input Lag?

    This refers to the delay from the moment a display receives a signal from a game controller (for example, by moving the analog stick or pressing a button) to the results manifesting on screen. As modern flat-panel televisions come with more and more features included (motion-compensated frame interpolation, backlight dimming, 3D capabilities, smart functionalities, etc.), more time is required to perform complex video processing, unfortunately contributing to higher input lag.

    From our experience, input lag is never made known by TV makers, who instead prefer to advertise a figure called “response time” which measures the time taken for a pixel to switch from either black to white or grey to grey (depending on which is more flattering). As a result, almost all input lag data available on the internet comes from end users rather than manufacturers.

    Up until 2012, the main method used by those who do not have access to advanced (and expensive) oscilloscope-grade instruments to measure input lag involves cloning a digital stopwatch on two displays (one being a reference – usually CRT), and then using a camera to capture both screens in one picture at sufficiently high shutter speed. The input lag, measured in miliseconds (ms), is the difference between the two stopwatch times recorded simultaneously.

    stopwatch


    However, the results obtained using this cloned stopwatch/ high-speed camera method are very seldom consistent (due to screen refresh and other variables), which is why we often have to take at least 10 readings, and average the numbers on an Excel spreadsheet.

    Leo Bodnar Lag Tester

    Last year, Leo Bodnar, a British engineer who primarily designs high-precision racing simulation gear, introduced a new device that simplifies this whole process. The ingenious gadget, named after the inventor, is basically a small, dual-AA-battery-powered box with a trigger button, an HDMI output, and a photosensor.

    Holding down the button sends a signal consisting of 3 flashing white bars on a black background over HDMI to the television being measured. By placing the photosensor over one of the bars (we typically use the middle one), the device would calculate the time taken from signal transmission to the white bar(s) appearing on the TV – the result would then be displayed on screen as a number in ms.

    leobodnar


    The principle behind Leo Bodnar’s input lag tester is so elegant (send a signal and then measure the delay directly) that we wondered why no one else had thought of it before. That said, despite its speed and convenience, there are a couple of things to bear in mind when interpreting its results, especially when compared against the traditional stopwatch/camera method.

    1) The Numbers Are Generally Higher

    The results generated by the Leo Bodnar lag tester are usually higher than the figures obtained using the cloned digital stopwatch/ high-speed camera method. This is because the latter requires the use of another display as reference (therefore any further lag on the reference display, however low, would have been subtracted from the final figure), whereas the former directly measures a TV’s input lag PLUS pixel response time without any intermediary.

    What does this mean? When you read about an HDTV’s input lag result (in miliseconds), it’s important to know if the number was obtained using Leo Bodnar’s device or the photo method. As a rough rule of thumb, we wouldn’t mind playing video games which demand fast reflexes (e.g. first-person shooters like Call Of Duty, Halo or Battlefield 3) on TVs whose input lag measured 33ms or below (i.e. 2 frames or less) using the stopwatch/camera method, or 40ms or less via the Leo Bodnar lag tester.

    Obviously, the lower the input lag, the greater the responsiveness, so if you’re an FPS veteran looking for a top-notch, fantastically fluid gaming experience, we recommend getting a television with input lag measuring not more than 16ms (photo) or 25ms (Leo Bodnar) respectively.

    2) It’s Harsher On Plasma TVs

    Note: This section was written with significant input from our chief reviewer David Mackenzie.

    When we first got our hands on the Leo Bodnar device, we were surprised when we obtained (nearly) the same 48ms figure from a Panasonic ST50 PDP (plasma display panel) and a new Panasonic ET60 LED LCD (both running in their fastest Game mode). From our experience of playing a decent amount of first-person shooter games online, the Panasonic ST50 is a total joy to play on compared to the LCD. The former feels considerably smoother than the latter, but both are returning basically the same figure.

    Or, put another way, we can believe the figures returned by the lag tester, but began to wonder if it’s being harsher on plasmas. Here’s our theory on why this is.

    An LCD-based display updates the screen from top to bottom, one line at a time, which means that a player’s brain cannot make sense of a part of the image until it has been completely rendered. The LCD’s top-to-bottom addressing can be seen with the Leo Bodnar lag tester: measuring the top patch tends to give a lower number than measuring the centre patch from our tests. However, on a PDP, the result is always the same on both patches.
    Slow-motion video of LCD’s top-to-bottom refresh (Credit: YouTube)
    Because plasma displays work by flashing the screen several times just to draw one video frame, on a PDP, an intermediate image doesn’t look half-drawn in the same way that it would on an LCD. Instead, it would have very low gradation (and brightness). In theory, this means that the player has a better chance of seeing the entire gameplay screen, albeit not at full quality, since the subfield drive throws out different steps of the dynamic range quickly just to draw one fully-gradated frame.

    This is the key difference according to our theory. On the LCD, obviously our eyes can’t make sense of parts of the frame which haven’t been drawn yet (parts of the frame are either fully rendered or not), but on the plasma, we get extra temporal precision in the feedback loop, since we can see rough versions of the frames before they’re even fully drawn. And, in a fast-paced game, our brain doesn’t care if it’s seeing incomplete images – it should still be able to make out rough outlines and shapes.

    The incomplete frames don’t necessarily even have to be coherent to our eyes. Even if we can detect the screen responding to our finger movements at all, it should be enough to make the game feel much more responsive.

    In isolation, and for slow-paced games, this is all basically moot. But in a first-person shooter (even one which only runs at 30 frames per second) or racing game, etc, where the entire screen is moving and split-second decisions count, we think the PDP’s subfield drive helps tremendously in making the gameplay feel smooth. After all, in reality, playing fast-paced games is a continuous feedback loop between the player and the screen.

    How does this explain why plasma televisions that feel much more responsive are shortchanged by the Leo Bodnar input lag tester which returns a higher figure? Well, we surmised that the flashing white bars need to hit a specific brightness threshold before they can be picked up by the device’s photosensor for lag time calculation: if you decrease or increase the on-screen luminance using the TV’s [Contrast] or [Backlight] control, the Leo Bodnar’s lag number should rise or drop correspondingly.

    A plasma’s subframe, while not bright enough to trigger the photosensor, can readily be perceived by us in the sensorial feedback loop, thus accounting for the discrepancy between the displayed input lag figure and the actual responsiveness of a PDP. Ironically, the older stopwatch/camera method – though inconsistent – is capable of capturing subframes before they’re fully drawn (since it’s not limited by any luminance threshold, and the shutter speed is much higher than the panel refresh rate), and so more accurately reflects how responsive a PDP is. This is the reason why we continue to run both tests on most HDTVs we review despite the photo method being such a labour-intensive process.


    Key Takeaways


    • When reading a published input lag figure, find out if it’s taken using the traditional stopwatch cloning/ high-speed camera method or with the newer Leo Bodnar lag tester device. Because the latter generally returns a higher number than the former, comparison between different displays is most meaningful when the same method is used.
    • The camera method would appear to take into account the difference caused by a plasma’s subfield driving method in a way which the Leo Bodnar lag tester does not.
    • For the photo method, an input lag between 16ms and 33ms is good; ≤ 16ms is excellent.
    • A Leo Bodnar-derived figure between 25ms and 40ms is good; ≤ 25ms is excellent.


    Game Mode

    Most TV manufacturers include a feature called [Game Mode] on their HDTVs, which serves to reduce input lag by cutting down on various video processing applied to the picture on screen. Although enabling [Game Mode] is normally enough to minimise lag, on certain models better results can be attained using special tricks. Here’s a brand-by-brand breakdown of how to achieve the lowest input lag on the 2013 TVs we’ve reviewed to date:



    • Panasonic: [Picture] > [Option Settings] > [Game Mode] “On
    • Samsung: Press the [Source] button on the remote, hover over HDMI, press the [Tool] button, select [Edit Name], then select [PC].
    • Sony: [Scene Select] > [Game]


    Of course, there might exist minor differences between specific TV models to obtain the lowest lag, so feel free to check out our individual reviews for more details.



    Source: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag
    Last edited by CAG CheechDogg; January 13th, 2015 at 02:00 PM.
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    Don't forget that gaming on tvs that are bigger than 32 inches also affects input lag between your console and the tv ... I have a 60 inch and you can definitely tell the difference ...it's very small but it does make a difference...i found an article that shows the input lag times for almost every single tv out there, check it out below:




    Brand Model Number Size Display Type Input Lag (Camera) Lag (Leo Bodnar) Price
    Sony KDL55W955B 55" LED LCD 6 ms 17 ms £999.00
    Sony KDL42W705B 42" LED LCD 6 ms 14 ms £429.00
    Sony KDL42W653 42" LED LCD 6 ms 15 ms £550
    Sony KDL-47W805A 47" LED LCD 6 ms 17 ms £2100
    Toshiba 47L7453 47" LED LCD 7 ms N/A £699.95
    Sony KDL42W829 42" LED LCD 8 ms N/A £499.00
    Sony KDL50W829 50" LED LCD 8 ms 22 ms £699.00
    Sony KDL46W905 46" LED LCD 8 ms 20 ms £1500
    Sony KDL55W905A 55" LED LCD 8 ms 20 ms £1650
    Samsung LE32C530 32" CCFL LCD 14 ms N/A £500
    Samsung PN64H5000 64" Plasma 16 ms 38 ms £850
    Samsung UE32F5000 32" LED LCD 16 ms 28 ms £300
    Samsung UE42F5500 42" LED LCD 16 ms 28 ms £450
    Samsung PS51E490 51" Plasma 16 ms N/A £800
    Panasonic TX-P42UT50B 42" Plasma 16 ms N/A £800
    Samsung PS60E6500 60" Plasma 16 ms N/A £1500
    Panasonic TX-P50ST50B 50" Plasma 16 ms N/A £1300
    Samsung UE40ES5500 40" LED LCD 16 ms N/A £750
    Panasonic TX-P42ST50B 42" Plasma 16 ms N/A £800
    Panasonic TX-P42S30B 42" Plasma 16 ms N/A £800
    Samsung UE32D5000 32" LED LCD 16 ms N/A £600
    Samsung PS51D6900 51" Plasma 16 ms N/A £900
    Samsung PS51D550 51" Plasma 16 ms N/A £550
    Toshiba 47VL863B 47" LED LCD 16 ms N/A £899
    Panasonic TX-P42ST30B 42" Plasma 16 ms N/A £800
    Panasonic TX-P42C3B 42" Plasma 16 ms N/A £300
    LG 32LD450 32" CCFL LCD 16 ms N/A £350
    Samsung LE32C450 32" CCFL LCD 16 ms N/A £300
    Panasonic TX-P50S20B 50" Plasma 16 ms N/A £850
    Panasonic TX-P50VT20 50" Plasma 17 ms N/A £1800
    Samsung PS50C6900 50" Plasma 18 ms N/A £900
    Toshiba 39L4353DB 39" 20 ms 28 ms £300
    Samsung UE32EH5000 32" LED LCD 20 ms N/A £250
    Panasonic TX-P42VT30B 42" Plasma 20 ms N/A £1000
    Panasonic TX-P42G20 42" Plasma 21 ms N/A £700
    Sony KDL40EX723 40" LED LCD 22 ms N/A £950
    Sharp LC46LE821E 46" LED LCD 22 ms N/A £850
    Panasonic TX-P42V20B 42" Plasma 22 ms N/A £1000
    Panasonic TX-P50VT65B 50" Plasma 23 ms 41 ms £1700
    Panasonic TX-P65VT65B 65" Plasma 23 ms 42 ms £2650
    Panasonic TX-P60ZT65B 60" Plasma 23 ms 42 ms £2900
    Panasonic TX-P55VT65B 55" Plasma 23 ms 41 ms £2400
    Panasonic TX-P50GT60B 50" Plasma 23 ms 43 ms £1500
    Panasonic TX-P65VT30B 65" Plasma 23 ms N/A £2500
    Panasonic TX-P42GT60B 42" Plasma 24 ms 42 ms £1200
    Panasonic TX-P42GT50B 42" Plasma 24 ms N/A £1000
    Panasonic TX-P50VT50B 50" Plasma 24 ms N/A £1500
    Panasonic TX-L42ET50B 42" LED LCD 24 ms N/A £1050
    Panasonic TX-P50VT30B 50" Plasma 24 ms N/A £1100
    Panasonic TX-P42G30B 42" Plasma 24 ms N/A £700
    Panasonic TX-P42GT30B 42" Plasma 24 ms N/A £19.99
    Panasonic TX-P50GT50B 50" Plasma 26 ms N/A £1500
    Toshiba 46WL768 46" LED LCD 26 ms N/A £1200
    Panasonic TX-P55VT50B 55" Plasma 28 ms N/A £2000
    Sony KDL-55HX853 55" LED LCD 28 ms N/A £1750
    Panasonic TX-P65VT50B 65" Plasma 29 ms N/A £3050
    Panasonic TX-50AX802B 50" LED LCD 30 ms 37 ms £1299.00
    Sony KDL40HX853 40" LED LCD 30 ms N/A £1100
    Sony KDL-40HX753 40" LED LCD 30 ms N/A £1200
    Panasonic TX-P42GT20 42" Plasma 30 ms N/A £600
    Sharp LC46LE700E 46" LED LCD 30 ms N/A
    Samsung LE40A786 40" LED LCD 30 ms N/A
    Samsung LE52F96BDX 52" LED LCD 30 ms N/A
    LG 55EC930V 55" OLED 31 ms 39 ms £2499.00
    Samsung UE55HU6900 55" LED LCD 31 ms 40 ms £949.00
    Sony KDL40R473 40" LED LCD 31 ms 42 ms £400
    Panasonic TX-L55WT65B 55" LED LCD 31 ms 38 ms £2300
    Samsung UE40ES6300 40" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £800
    Samsung PS64E8000 64" Plasma 31 ms N/A £4000
    LG 42LM660T 42" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £600
    Samsung PS51E8000 51" Plasma 31 ms N/A £900
    Samsung UE40ES7000 40" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £850
    LG 42LM620T 40" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £550
    Samsung UE55ES8000 55" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £2600
    Sony KDL-55HX823 55" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £1500
    Samsung PS64D8000 64" Plasma 31 ms N/A £2150
    Sharp LC40LE831E 40" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £300
    Toshiba 46WL863B 46" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £650
    Sony KDL-40HX723 40" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £900
    Sony KDL-46HX923 46" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £1100
    Panasonic TX-L37DT30B 37" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £850
    Samsung PS51D8000 51" Plasma 31 ms N/A £1550
    Sony KDL32EX713 32" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £500
    Sony KDL40HX803 40" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £900
    Toshiba 32SL753B 32" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £300
    Sony KDL40EX703 40" LED LCD 31 ms N/A
    Toshiba 46SV685D 46" LED LCD 31 ms N/A
    Samsung UE65HU8500 65" LED LCD 32 ms 41 ms £3199.00
    Samsung UE48HU7500 48" LED LCD 32 ms 41 ms £1199.00
    Samsung UE46H7000 46" LED LCD 32 ms 39 ms £1200
    Samsung UE55HU8200 55" LED LCD 32 ms 41 ms £1799.00
    Sony KD-55X9005B 55" LED LCD 32 ms 41 ms £2700
    Samsung UE55H8000 55" LED LCD 32 ms 34 ms £2200
    Sony KDL46HX853 46" LED LCD 32 ms N/A £1200
    Samsung UE40D5520 40" LED LCD 32 ms N/A £11.99
    Samsung UE46C8000 46" LED LCD 32 ms N/A £1500
    Panasonic TX-L42DT65B 42" LED LCD 33 ms 36 ms £1150
    Samsung UE46ES6800 46" LED LCD 33 ms N/A £1100
    Sony KDL-40NX723 40" LED LCD 33 ms N/A £750
    Samsung UE46D7000 46" LED LCD 33 ms N/A £1400

    Brand Model Number Size Display Type Input Lag (Camera) Lag (Leo Bodnar) Price
    Samsung UE55D8000 55" LED LCD 33 ms N/A £2000
    Panasonic TX-L42E6B 42" LED LCD 34 ms N/A £500
    Panasonic TX-L47ET60B 47" LED LCD 34 ms N/A £800
    Panasonic TX-L37S20 37" CCFL LCD 34 ms N/A £450
    Toshiba 32RL953B 32" LED LCD 35 ms N/A £350
    Toshiba 40RV753 40" CCFL LCD 35 ms N/A £550
    Panasonic TX-L37V20B 37" LED LCD 35 ms N/A £850
    Samsung LE40C580 40" CCFL LCD 35 ms N/A £500
    Panasonic TX-L42D25 42" LED LCD 35 ms N/A £900
    Samsung UE40B8000 40" LED LCD 35 ms N/A
    Samsung UE48H6400 48" LED LCD 37 ms N/A £529.00
    Samsung UE40B7020 40" LED LCD 37 ms N/A
    Samsung UE40H6400 40" LED LCD 38 ms 43 ms £399.00
    Samsung PS64F8500 64" Plasma 38 ms 64 ms £2500
    LG 42LE5900 42" LED LCD 38 ms N/A £500
    Samsung UE40F6400 40" LED LCD 40 ms 43 ms £1650
    Philips 46PFL8007T 46" LED LCD 40 ms N/A £1500
    Sony KDL32EX403 32" CCFL LCD 40 ms N/A £400
    Panasonic TX-P46VT20B 46" Plasma 41 ms N/A £16850
    Samsung LE40C750 40" CCFL LCD 41 ms N/A £800
    Panasonic TX-L42E5B 42" LED LCD 42 ms N/A £500
    Samsung UE55F8000 55" LED LCD 44 ms 44 ms £2100
    Samsung UE46F8000 46" LED LCD 45 ms 43 ms £1650
    Philips 46PFL9707 46" LED LCD 45 ms 52 ms £2300
    Samsung LE40C650 40" CCFL LCD 45 ms N/A £800
    Samsung LE55A956 55" LED LCD 45 ms N/A
    Philips 55PFL8008 55" LED LCD 46 ms 50 ms £1600
    Samsung UE46F7000 46" LED LCD 46 ms 44 ms £1250
    Samsung UE40D6530 40" LED LCD 46 ms N/A £1200
    Panasonic TX-P42ST60 42" Plasma 47 ms 75 ms £1000
    Sony KDL32CX523 32" CCFL LCD 47 ms N/A £450
    Samsung UE46C9000 46" LED LCD 47 ms N/A £3150
    Panasonic TX-P42VT20B 42" Plasma 47 ms N/A £1000
    LG 50PK590 50" Plasma 51 ms N/A £700
    LG 42SL9000 42" LED LCD 53 ms N/A
    Sony KDL40EX503 40" CCFL LCD 60 ms N/A £700
    LG 47LM960V 47" LED LCD 67 ms N/A £950
    LG 47LW550T 47" LED LCD 68 ms N/A £550
    Samsung UE32C6000 32" LED LCD 70 ms N/A £650
    Panasonic TX-55AX902B 55" LED LCD N/A 87 ms £3199.00
    Panasonic TX-40AX630B 40" LED LCD N/A 63 ms £699.00
    LG 55EC9300 55" OLED N/A 46 ms £3500
    Panasonic TX42AS650B 42" LED LCD N/A 59 ms £500
    Sony XBR-65X950B 65" LED LCD N/A 44 ms £8000
    Panasonic TX-40AS640 40" LED LCD N/A 59 ms £399.00
    LG 49UB850V 49" LED LCD N/A 66 ms £899.00
    Samsung UE55HU7500 55" LED LCD N/A 69 ms £2300
    Sony KDL40W605 40" LED LCD N/A 29 ms £399.00
    Samsung UE55HU8500 55" LED LCD N/A 73 ms £1999.00
    Panasonic TX-L65WT600 65" LED LCD N/A 36 ms £5500
    Sony KD55X9005 55" LED LCD N/A 43 ms £1999.00
    LG 55EA980W 55" OLED N/A 55 ms £8000
    Sony KDL32W653 32" LED LCD N/A 33 ms £350
    Samsung KE55S9C 55" OLED N/A 65 ms £7000
    Samsung UE65F9000 65" LED LCD N/A 69 ms £4100
    LG 42LA620V 42" LED LCD N/A 43 ms £550
    Samsung UE32F6400 32" LED LCD N/A 43 ms £550
    Panasonic TX-L32E6B 32" LED LCD N/A 26 ms £450
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    51 ms for my TV. Yikes. I think I need a new one lol.

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    You can also buy a BenQ monitor they sell refurbs for about 230. They have very little input lag and its what the pros are using. It is just a thought.

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    Sylvania not hot in the streets lol. i thought about buying one of dem BenQ monitors but as i get more and more back into having a social life i find myself playing much less.

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    the nice thing about the BenQ is you can use it for you computer as well.

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    oh yeah i know i just don't have that "i can't wait to go home and play games" drive most days. maybe it's been the quality, or lack there of, with most of the releases the last few years? next gen gaming has been really underwhelming with the exception of BF4 and most of it was just finally having what PC has had for years lol.

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    Giving this thread a BUMP !!!
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    Just wanted to give this thread a bump ... I was thinking about this the other night and remembered that I posted this ...
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    Local Date
    November 15th, 2024
    Local Time
    08:53 AM
    Location
    Poplar Bluff, MO
    Forum Footmatt

    Last night Cogs and I were talking about the tv related input lag. I swapped my 48" vizio tv with a computer monitor I have that's a few years old. I saw a difference in the first match but I'm still plagued by lag according to the killcams. My connection to the monitor is with a cheapy HDMI/DVI cord. Anyone know if that cord alone adds lag?

    My setup:
    47798707427151c898ac1be19455a21572f5cfd85ebcffab1d0d34931f0941a9


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